#1 29th Jul 2014 21:17:34

EaglePrince
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Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

SHN RULES for Crusader multiplayer (no shields and no non-working population)

  1. limit at number of woodcutters (30 for example)

  2. limit at number of mills (5 for example)

  3. limit at number of waterpots (5 for example)

  4. no portable shields

  5. laddermen trick forbidden (training lots of cheap laddermen only to disband them, and to create high population for taking taxes. similar can be done with any other cheap unit)

  6. trick building walls around quarries forbidden


Hey, guys! I was writing about this before, but I am writing about it for the first time here at this forum. We get along pretty well when we play Stronghold Crusader in multiplayer - non of us does some stuff that other don't approve. (At least I hope so smile ) Still, it would be nice if some other people would join our Stronghold Crusader gaming events, but the only problem is that fact that many players out there play in a way we don't like. If we created some our rules, we could invite them to join our events without fearing are they gonna play in an "expert way" or the way we like. We could all play in their way as well, but we do not want to play in one pattern. I will write down some things that should be among these rules in my opinion. Through these rules, we would only describe other how we like to play, and how we would expect from them to play, if they wanted to play with us.

The red rules are important ones, while the orange ones are mandatory.

  1. limit at number of woodcutters (30 for example)

  2. limit at number of mills (5 for example)

  3. limit at number of waterpots (5 for example)

  4. no portable shields

  5. laddermen trick forbidden (training lots of cheap laddermen only to disband them, and to create high population for taking taxes. similar can be done with any other cheap unit)

  6. trick building walls around quarries forbidden

  7. catapult firing at troops (mangonels and trebuchets are allowed to do this)

  8. no cow throwing unless they are thrown into the castle

  9. no fire, or no putting enemy castle to fire only

EDIT: I have ejected those orange rules, and left only the red, mandatory, ones in order to avoid confusion.
These are some of them that crossed my mind at this moment. These explanations:

  1. only in order to stop people from making large non-working population for later taxation, or recruiting massive armies. Wood is needed at the beginning, so making small limit for woodcutters wouldn't be right - they are needed not just for taxation, they are needed as working population.

  2. only in order to stop people from making large non-working population for later taxation, or recruiting massive armies. one will hardly need more than five mills. If one needs more, it should be solved by placing those closer to stockpile.

  3. only in order to stop people from making large non-working population for later taxation, or recruiting massive armies. Those guys are mostly non-working, but they are needed if someone sets your castle to fire, or part of your economy, but they are not needed in huge numbers. If one is worried that his castle my be set to fire, or something he build, my advice would be not to place building to close to each other. At least when those structures are expensive or vital for you for some reason.

  4. trick with the shields is, in my opinion, only exploit of the game, and it can provide more protection to the soldier than tower itself. If they were really that effective, no one would bother so much building castles. smile Also, we do not want to make any troops almost impossible to kill...

  5. needless to say anything. smile

  6. obvious reasons. smile

  7. catapults were designed to destroy walls, not to kill troops. Also, catapults could never be effective against troops in real life, but in Crusader they can be devastating to slowly moving troops. Also if this is allowed, the fight may become whole different - players would start building catapults to use them as cannons against troops, but that's just not the way it was.

  8. this shall be up to players to deal how to play.

  9. this shall be up to players to deal how to play. I like playing with fire, as this makes the game more interesting in my opinion.

Also, if you like, you may have a look at these: alpha rules and liga rules. There you might find some ideas. But my main goal is not to lose the beauty of the game - we don't want to add to many limitations. smile Although these four I mentioned above are two rules in fact: no large non-working population, and no shields.

Speaking about spamming some army types - I could say that anyone who uses large groups of one single unit can always be easily stopped - each of them have their weaknesses.


Please, share your opinion, so we could find the best solution. Once more - I believe we don't need the rules for ourselves, but it would be nice to have them, for any new members... Also, I don't say we should be strict about these - after all, it will always be on us to fight with honor. smile

Last edited by EaglePrince (9th Aug 2014 11:38:22)

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#2 30th Jul 2014 01:26:08

bradley0095
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

sounds sensible

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#3 30th Jul 2014 07:09:36

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I'm glad you like the idea. I hope other will share their opinion as well. smile

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#4 30th Jul 2014 08:50:42

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

Certainly seems like a good idea. Thread Stuck. I'll do the same for Legends.

@ Bradley: would you like to do the one for SH2?

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#5 30th Jul 2014 14:56:47

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I'm glad you like it as well. One more thing crossed my mind today - the trick with quarries and oxes - when someone builds walls around quarries, and ox tethers near stockpile, he is able to get stone from across the map in a minute, and he avoids possibility for his oxes to be killed on the way to castle.

There are also some dirty and childish trick I saw people use (very rarely), but those are not worth mentioning. smile Anyone with just a little fairness knows that those things are not right to do. Such as building woodcutters hut in front of someones gates... I have never seen someone using this one, but I will mention it: to build a woodcutters hut where I expect pitch is placed, to set it to fire, and to set the fire the pitch as well. smile It wouldn't be fair as well. smile

Speaking about Stronghold 2 - it may be possible that some rules in this one will not be needed at all, but you know about that better than me. Although there is one rule I know about: no sending assassins on an enemy lord. At least I heard about that one, but I must admit, that it seems pretty tough to kill an enemy lord this way, when makes good defenses. Assassins in Stronghold Crusader don't have any armor, and they are very vulnerable to archers attacks, but I don't know about Stronghold 2. Troops act differently there. smile

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#6 30th Jul 2014 16:11:33

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

Assassins in Stronghold 2 are a lot harder to kill, and in number, they can easily kill enemy lords. It would be better having no assassins in stronghold 2.

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#7 31st Jul 2014 23:55:15

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I have added two more rules, along with their explanations. Please, share your opinion with others.

Those are the added rules: no catapult firing at troops (this doesn't apply on mangonels and trebuchets - only on catapults); and no cow throwing outside enemy castles.

Please share your opinion with others.

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#8 2nd Aug 2014 11:55:14

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

After speaking to you guys, and some other players, I have come to these:

  1. limit at number of woodcutters (30 for example)

  2. limit at number of mills (5 for example)

  3. limit at number of waterpots (5 for example)

  4. no portable shields

  5. laddermen trick forbidden (training lots of cheap laddermen only to disband them, and to create high population for taking taxes. similar can be done with any other cheap unit)

  6. trick building walls around quarries forbidden

  7. catapult firing at troops (mangonels and trebuchets are allowed to do this)

  8. no cow throwing unless they are thrown into the castle

  9. no fire, or no putting enemy castle to fire only

The red rules are the most important once. The orange ones are not mandatory.

I mean, we cannot put to many rules - we do not want to simplify the game. We only want to make multiplayer game more enjoyable.

Do you agree about these?

Last edited by EaglePrince (3rd Aug 2014 09:44:33)

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#9 2nd Aug 2014 13:18:43

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I like the all those rules, though I do think it would be better to not have a limit on the cows thrown by trebuchets.

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#10 2nd Aug 2014 14:13:18

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

You mean limit on cows thrown by trebuchets at once? That could be good. The only thing I am afraid of, is that too many rules can repudiate players... The rules should be simple. But we could add that to those rules that are not mandatory.

There is also one more thing that we could do - to set a limit on catapults that one player can have at one moment. This way it would be less possible to for some players to spam with catapults. Still, on the other hand, some players play defensive game only, and they build their castle with many towers, and to fill those towers with crossbowmen. Such player can be defeated only using catapults, as this tactic exploits crossbowmens greatest weakness - they are slow. smile

But we do can add this with catapults (maximum number of catapults) to rules that are not mandatory, and it will be ok mostly? smile I believe 10 catapults / trebuchets would be good enough?

EDITED THE THIRD PARAGRAPH.

Last edited by EaglePrince (2nd Aug 2014 15:47:06)

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#11 2nd Aug 2014 20:57:58

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

You mean limit on cows thrown by trebuchets at once? That could be good.

Actually, I meant cows being able to be thrown anywhere - I don't see what difference it makes for them to be thrown in castles and elsewhere on the map - unless you were referring to something else?

to set a limit on catapults that one player can have at one moment.

This may be picky now, but I think it's getting too much - and at too many small things. I think catapults don't really make a difference - it's like limiting the amount of siege equipment or archers you can have - it all makes it so much harder to get anything done.

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#12 2nd Aug 2014 21:48:06

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

The only reason I said that with throwing cows is because dead animals were being thrown into enemy city to bring illnesses there, so cows were indeed effective - but only when being thrown inside a city, because they have no safe place where they could dump dead animal body. But that is not the reason no to throw cows in Crusader, I agree that we shouldn't go too far.

I also agree about catapults.

I believe we could eject those three orange rules, and to leave only those that are read. So those would be our rules:

  1. limit at number of woodcutters (30 allowed)

  2. limit at number of mills (5 allowed)

  3. limit at number of waterpots (5 allowed)

  4. no portable shields

  5. laddermen trick forbidden (training lots of cheap laddermen only to disband them, and to create high population for taking taxes. similar can be done with any other cheap unit)

  6. trick with building walls around quarries forbidden

I apologize, I realize I was writing too much about it, and in the end I came to only those rules I originally mentioned. Essentially, only population spamming is forbidden, and portable shields.

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#13 3rd Aug 2014 09:34:50

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

That's fine, certainly no need to apologise about it wink

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#14 3rd Aug 2014 10:13:20

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I have changed the first message in this topic, for others to be clear what are the rules. smile

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#15 9th Aug 2014 04:37:00

Charles of Tours
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I sometimes build lots of woodcutters, mills, and waterpots, but only in my castle designs that act more like walled cities with huge populations. But I don't use any tricks to build up a massive army in a short amount of time, unless if that includes turning off some buildings (weapon makers usually) to make a hasty defense force if my offensive army is destroyed and my castle is poorly defended. smile

I usually don't use portable shields, but I'll miss them a little. I'll feel better if everyone involved in particular matches agrees to not use them, however. smile

I probably know Crusader's tricks too well, but I never use them against fellow humans. Should we mention the double crenelation trick, which makes assassins, siege towers, and laddermen useless? Or is that a valid tactic against assassin hordes?


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#16 9th Aug 2014 11:32:35

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

I build lots of woodcutters myself, but I believe I always have less then 30 of them though... Although I'm not sure about that, but I do believe most of us build less then 30. Nevertheless, I don't say using "sleepers" should be forbidden - if you need to build an army fast, than why not to use this thing - an AI lord would use it as well. You may need that to strike an enemy once again before he repairs his castle and defenses, or you may find your castle vulnerable, and in this case why not to use this to build a bigger army. You also don't need to shut down weapons workshops - I always tend to shut down those ones who are less necessary at the moment. For example, stone quarries, or even iron mines (if I have lots of iron on stockpile). Sometimes I also shut down bakers and mills as well - there nothing wrong in shutting down those, the only problem is when someone builds more of those than he needs for his economy.

Well, yes, portable shields themselves are interesting part of the game, and they are nice thing, but if players don't exploit them putting them and archers in the same place it would be better... Still, it is hard to accomplish something like that, and also, since it is possible to send shields on towers, it is better not to use them in my opinion.

Should we mention the double crenelation trick, which makes assassins, siege towers, and laddermen useless? Or is that a valid tactic against assassin hordes?

Well, I guess we should add that as well, I haven't used that, and I didn't cross my mind while writing those rules. Besides that we could also add building small walls before high walls, which also disable assassins from sneaking into the castle. They would be able to climb on smaller one, but that cannot climb from small to high...

There is a natural way to stop assassins - one can always dig moats, and that is the best protection. smile

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#17 17th Aug 2014 11:58:04

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Crusader multiplayer rules

Moving to Gaming Events.

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