Poll
Spearmen

0% (0)
Macemen

16% (1)
Pikemen

33% (2)
Swordsmen

50% (3)
Knights

0% (0)
Assassins

0% (0)
Arab. Swords

0% (0)
Fire Throwers

0% (0)
Voters: 8

#1 7th Feb 2015 18:10:01

Isaiah
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Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Alright, another attempt to revitalize the Stronghold 1/Crusader Community

Note: If you vote in the poll, please share why you voted for what you did. This is a discussion thread, and troops are definitely great discussin topics.

Stuff in this format are the newest added questions.
Note - While I posted this for Stronghold 1, you can discuss your strategy in Stronghold Crusader/Crusader Extreme here too.

What approach do you take when building a castle (in-game or in-editor)?
Do you ever use mongenels on square / round towers?
Do you ever use turrets, or do you always build towers?
Have you ever set troops to patrol an area?
What troops do you use to defend the keep? Walls? Gatehouses / Towers?
When sieging an enemy castle, what do you use if you use anything?
What's the hardest troop to kill? The most annoying?
What's your favorite troop? Least favorite? Most useful?
Do you ever use spearmen when you have better troops available?
What about laddermen, monks, and tunnellers?
Which is more important: iron or pitch?
What food(s) do you use?
If you can't use bread, what food would you grow?
Do you use cremulation for defensive purposes?
What's your average population size? (Especially Crusader)
Are macemen worth the leather? (Does their power make up for the fact that the leather has to be shared between them and crossbowmen?)
Which is worse (in Crusader): Starting Rush (Trainging a bunch of mercenaries then attacking while the opponent has no time to build up defenses) or horse archers with portable shields?
Which do you prefer: catapults or trebuchets?
In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?
In Crusader, what style of gameplay do you use (defensive, offensive, support/economy, support/defend, etc)
What tactics would you use if you couldn't build walls, moats, and other commonly used defensive structures (pitch / boiling oil allowed).
Who's harder: Saladin or the Wolf in Crusader?
How many Rats would take to kill Saladin?

Ok, the last question was a joke.

Those are just examples, explain your tactics via any question you want; just remember to state why you do something, or why you feel one way or another.

Last edited by Isaiah (14th Feb 2015 15:00:53)


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#2 8th Feb 2015 14:18:59

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

I rarely build a castle in editor, I mostly do it in game, and that's something I enjoy in Stronghold. Almost each time I have a pattern in my mind about where to build each building, although that pattern is adjustable to the space I have available. I believe that most of you who played more than one game in multiplayer have noticed that pattern, and I am showing you one example of my castle now.

ss2.JPG

It always depends of the game, if it is skirmish game, it can be a smaller castle, while in some multiplayer games I build a huge version of this castle - if I notice that my opponent is building huge economy. This way I can build weapons production, bakeries and breweries inside my castle, while I leave the inns outside relying on my army to protect those from enemy attacks, slaves, and ballistae. If I see I will have a hard time defending my economy outside the castle, I also dig moats around the castle and the economy. Still, I do not attack my walls to maps edges, and I do not build the wall around farms, stone quarries, and iron mines, because I just don't like playing that way. smile On the other hand, I don't mind if my opponent does that.

I mostly build square towers, while I also build turrets - especially in singleplayer game, or multiplayer game against AI lords. They are weak, but I like to have different types of towers, that makes the castle look better. smile

Regarding patrolling troops, I rarely do that.

Troops I use are mostly archers, crossbowmen, pikemen and swordsmen, while swordsmen are my favorite melee troops, and in multiplayer or in hard singleplayer games I train more crossbowmen, as archers are easy to be wiped out by Arabian horsemen. Oh, and about the archers - I don't ways use archers, but when I do, you will find some of your troops burning outside my castle. smile

Regarding my siege tactics, one that may distinguish me from others is the fact that I quite often use battering rams and siege towers; but my siege tactics always depend of my enemies defenses.

Speaking about one annoying unit, I am going to say only two words - portable shields... They are just overpowered in Crusader, and I really don't like how some people like to use them on their towers or to combine them with horse archers. Still, I won't say I find those hard to kill, as I know how to control shields and horse archers pretty well, but that's something I do only when my opponent starts bragging how he is a pro player, or how someone from my team is a noob. cool

Spearmen I rarely use, but I do find them helpful in the first stages of singleplayer game, or a game against AI lords, to stop those early attacks, and to defend my lord, granary and other important things inside my castle - mostly while it's still not enclosed.

Which is more important: iron or pitch - I'd say iron. cool

As you may have noticed from the rest of my text - I feed my people with bread, even though those are more expensive in the beginning, they are the most effective in long terms.

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#3 8th Feb 2015 23:34:34

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Excellent post EaglePrince; if you don't mind, I'm going to give my two cents on your post before stating my stance on each question. My responses will be in bold.

EaglePrince said:

I rarely build a castle in editor, I mostly do it in game, and that's something I enjoy in Stronghold. Almost each time I have a pattern in my mind about where to build each building, although that pattern is adjustable to the space I have available. I believe that most of you who played more than one game in multiplayer have noticed that pattern, and I am showing you one example of my castle now.

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/61/55/7 … es/ss2.JPG

In the map editor, you have unlimited resources = ideal castle!

It always depends of the game, if it is skirmish game, it can be a smaller castle, while in some multiplayer games I build a huge version of this castle - if I notice that my opponent is building huge economy. This way I can build weapons production, bakeries and breweries inside my castle, while I leave the inns outside relying on my army to protect those from enemy attacks, slaves, and ballistae. If I see I will have a hard time defending my economy outside the castle, I also dig moats around the castle and the economy. Still, I do not attack (should be attach not attack) my walls to maps edges, and I do not build the wall around farms, stone quarries, and iron mines, because I just don't like playing that way. smile On the other hand, I don't mind if my opponent does that.

I try to keep low populations which means no ale; I rely on food instead.

I mostly build square towers, while I also build turrets - especially in singleplayer game, or multiplayer game against AI lords. They are weak, but I like to have different types of towers, that makes the castle look better. smile

In truthfulness, I only build square towers (plus lookout towers in Crusader)

Regarding patrolling troops, I rarely do that.

Agreed, I was just curious; I mean, its an interesting concept of combining patrols and stances. Perhaps something to try out?

Troops I use are mostly archers, crossbowmen, pikemen and swordsmen, while swordsmen are my favorite melee troops, and in multiplayer or in hard singleplayer games I train more crossbowmen, as archers are easy to be wiped out by Arabian horsemen. Oh, and about the archers - I don't ways use archers, but when I do, you will find some of your troops burning outside my castle. smile

Obviously archery troops. Swordsmen because of melee superiority. What makes you use pikemen?

Regarding my siege tactics, one that may distinguish me from others is the fact that I quite often use battering rams and siege towers; but my siege tactics always depend of my enemies defenses.

Those weapons sound interesting, but I never really tried it in practice. Does it actually work?

Speaking about one annoying unit, I am going to say only two words - portable shields... They are just overpowered in Crusader, and I really don't like how some people like to use them on their towers or to combine them with horse archers. Still, I won't say I find those hard to kill, as I know how to control shields and horse archers pretty well, but that's something I do only when my opponent starts bragging how he is a pro player, or how someone from my team is a noob. cool

tongue If only they weren't used in an overpowered manner...

Spearmen I rarely use, but I do find them helpful in the first stages of singleplayer game, or a game against AI lords, to stop those early attacks, and to defend my lord, granary and other important things inside my castle - mostly while it's still not enclosed.

An interesting idea... It works for you too since you use pikeme! smile

Which is more important: iron or pitch - I'd say iron. cool

Can you explain why?

As you may have noticed from the rest of my text - I feed my people with bread, even though those are more expensive in the beginning, they are the most effective in long terms.

I also noticed that you were mainly referring to Stronghold Crusader. I have no problem with that, butsince this is (currently) in Stronghold 1's forum, you might want to note such. If more people want to talk about Crusade rather than Stronghold 1, this thread can definitely be moved.

Now that I made my comments, I will share my own opinions:

What approach do you take when building a castle (in-game or in-editor)?
Always a square castle. I normally build moat (if possible), and tried to fit as many buildings inside as possible. In Stronghold 1, I'll attempt to make multiple layers, but normally I cannot gather the neccessary resources, etc for it. My castle design is always changing,; I'm never consistent.

Do you ever use mongenels on square / round towers?
Absolutely not, as it can damage my buildings and misses 90% of the time.

Do you ever use turrets or do you always build towers?
Always towers. I like being able to mount ballistas. In Crusader, I'll use lookout towers to fill the gaps (though technically a turret, it has tower in the name smile )

What troops do you use to defend the keep? Walls? Gatehouses / Towers?
Obviously archery units for all of them. For the keep, I use swordsmen and pikemen as they're excellent defenders.
I don't really place troops on walls, as I think that leaves them vulnerable.
Gatehouses and towers generally aren't defended with melee troops. In Crusader, I'll use arabian bowmen and fire throwers too. I also don't use catapults or trebuchets on defense.

When sieging an enemy castle, what do you do if you can use anything?
Maybe fire ballistas in Crusader, but that's about it.

Do you ever use spearmen when you have better troops available?
No, I think their just a waste.

What food(s) do you use?
Bread, so there is no micromanaging when setup. I have dairy farms for leather.

Also, if you think of any other good discussion questions, feel free to ask me to add it to the list!

Last edited by Isaiah (8th Feb 2015 23:55:06)


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#4 9th Feb 2015 08:42:19

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

I do realize that in map editor I have unlimited resources, but that's the reason why I like to build a castle in skirmish more then in map editor - I want to put an effort in building a castle. smile

Regarding that ale, I think that you can produce ale even with low population - maybe one hops farms and two breweries could be enough for your castle.

Speaking about patrolling, I think that making horse archers to patrol could be a good use of this option, as they can fire arrows while riding their horses.

About the pikemen - swordsmen do have their downsides: they are slow, and they cannot dig. On the other hand pikemen are faster and they have more health which makes them ideal for attacking an enemy which has moats around his castle, and they are also more effective against players who defend with lots of crossbowmen.

Speaking about rams and towers - they do work, in those situations I decide to use them. Especially siege towers, maybe one reason for that is the fact that the enemy doesn't expect from me to use that siege equipment. This way I can easily enter enemy castle, or climb his walls and take down his archers and crossbowmen.

Indeed, in the beginning I build some workshops to produce spears, and later when I get iron and armorer's workshops up, I just order them to produce pikes instead.

About iron - that is because I find it harder to buy iron - that does make the economy weaker, especially if one wants to produce swordsmen. Then are pikemen a better choice.

And, yes, one may thing I am referring to Crusader 1, especially because of the screenshot I gave from Crusader, but I was referring to both those games. My military tactics are almost the same in both games, only with difference that Stronghold 1 economy is harder to run - it has slower economy.

Speaking about mangonels, this is my tactic - I put mangonels to front towers, while I put ballistae on back towers, similarly to some AI lords in fact. The reason for that is the fact that mangonels on back towers would indeed bring damage to my own castle, and kill my own troops, but those mangonels on front are pretty useful - especially if you are being attacked by lots of catapults - by AI lords or by human players, doesn't matter. Only it is even more effective against human players when human player groups all catapults together. Then each stone from my mangonels would very likely hit a catapult.

Regarding spearmen, yes - they are waste of resources, but those are very little amount of resources. You should consider this - spears are being produced pretty fast, and training a spearmen is indeed very cheap. They are not that bad against melee troops, but they are extremely vulnerable to archers attacks - that would devastate them, so you have to put archers in front and keep the spearmen behind, to send them forwards only when they need to face some melee units. On the other hand, if you have a good economy, and if you are able to train more powerful troops, then those guys could be a waste of recruits, as you are limited by recruits as well - they won't come to your castle faster than they would normally do.

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#5 9th Feb 2015 22:08:14

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Another excellent post EaglePrince… Too bad this thread isn't sparking the conversation I was hoping for...

About the horse archers + patrol - I never would've though about it, but that is a very good idea (might even be op); it would definitely reduce the amount of management required, so you can direct your melee troops.

Excellent job explaining your stance on Pikemen; my favorite troop are them because while they are weak, they can get farther than swordsmen when attacking walls since swordsmen are EXTREMELY slow. The fact that they can dig/fill moats is a plus smile

I think we can agree that moats are the best way to slow down the enemy.

Siege equipment can be problem, so that's not a bad idea for mongenels.

Yes, spears are created quickly, but 100 spearmen would never equal 3 swordsmen against a fully defended castle.

Also, I updated the opening post with more questions if you're interested in discussing.


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#6 10th Feb 2015 07:43:51

Crusader1307
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Really good breakdown on how you use your troops Isaiah. Good tactical know how! big_smile

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#7 10th Feb 2015 21:05:13

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Excellent job explaining your stance on Pikemen; my favorite troop are them because while they are weak, they can get farther than swordsmen when attacking walls since swordsmen are EXTREMELY slow. The fact that they can dig/fill moats is a plus smile

They have weak attack, but they can take a lot of damage. If you haven't noticed, a pikeman needs to step on the trap twice in order to die.

Speaking about patrolling horsemen - although it seems pretty useful, I should tell that a players still needs to watch over them. If you don't, the enemy could slaughter them with slowest troops there are. big_smile

I think we can agree that moats are the best way to slow down the enemy.

Indeed, although pitch is also pretty useful as well, especially in multiplayer; and as usual, combination of those two can be he best!

Yes, spears are created quickly, but 100 spearmen would never equal 3 swordsmen against a fully defended castle.

I think you are wrong about this, but it indeed depends of which troops does the defended use. If he uses crossbowmen, then spearmen have better chances to show themselves more effective than those 3 swordsmen, while if the defender has archers, then they have less chances to show themselves as more effective.



And to reply to the new questions. smile

I do use crenellation, but I only put only one layer of crenellation wall. I don't put more layers of it, which is something that many players use to stop the assassins.

In singleplayer my average population in 150, but it depends of the map - if I have less space, I have smaller population. Speaking about mu castle in multipolar game, it depends of my opponents. If I see my enemies build huge economies then I make even larger castle, and then I have more then 200-300 working people, depending of whether the map is low resource or not. My mom always has more 200 by the way. big_smile

Regarding the question with the macemen - yes, they are definitely worth it! They are strong and fast units - pretty useful, especially against Opponents who use fire to defend themselves.

Which is worse (in Crusader): Starting Rush or horse archers with portable shields?

What exactly do you mean under "starting rush". If it is rush just after no rush period has ended - I have nothing against it; that's what no rush period is for. smile You build your castle and your economy, and when no rush time is ended, then the battles begin. smile
If you taught about playing a game without a rush period, and when the opponent attacks you right from the beginning - I think that can be a challenging thing... You just start to build your economy, and you must be on watch - to monitor how much army does your opponent has. If he has more troops in beginning, then he is getting ready to attack you, and you need to prepare yourself. smile And then... well, use your imagination, you could try to set this guy to fire, or something like that. big_smile Also, crossbowmen are pretty effective against assassins! The bad side of this is that most of those players will simply leave the game after they fail in their attack, but hey - you did make one kid out there pretty angry, which is nice. lol

Speaking about portable shields - I will be short. I don't like them. big_smile

Last edited by EaglePrince (10th Feb 2015 21:25:40)

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#8 11th Feb 2015 00:05:06

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Once again, my responses are in bold.

EaglePrince said:

They have weak attack, but they can take a lot of damage. If you haven't noticed, a pikeman needs to step on the trap twice in order to die.

Yes, I knew that; this is in-part why I like them.

Speaking about patrolling horsemen - although it seems pretty useful, I should tell that a players still needs to watch over them. If you don't, the enemy could slaughter them with slowest troops there are. big_smile

tongue I forget completely about melee troops when I wrote the post earlier! Yep, if you aren't attentive, assassins or swordsmen will murder your horse archers!

Indeed, although pitch is also pretty useful as well, especially in multiplayer; and as usual, combination of those two can be he best!

To be truthful, I've never used pitch, but fire is always a hazard, so good point.

I think you are wrong about this, but it indeed depends of which troops does the defended use. If he uses crossbowmen, then spearmen have better chances to show themselves more effective than those 3 swordsmen, while if the defender has archers, then they have less chances to show themselves as more effective.

Most players and Lords tend to use a combination of th two. Also, remember that Swordsmen can take about 200 arrows whereas spearmen only take 3. I believe it was 17 bolts to kill Swordsmen (Stronghold Heaven Number cruching thread, which by the way, someone should update the gatehouse/tower damage values; they got updated) and only 1 bolt to kill a spearman. Therefore, I'd still say 3 swordsmen beat 100 spearmen every time unless your opponent is using almost all crossbows. I will say Spearmen have one of the quickest dig times.

And to reply to the new questions. smile

I do use crenellation, but I only put only one layer of crenellation wall. I don't put more layers of it, which is something that many players use to stop the assassins.

Any particular reason why you use only 1 layer? Although, I don't think I really use cremulation at all in skirmish maps.

In singleplayer my average population in 150, but it depends of the map - if I have less space, I have smaller population. Speaking about mu castle in multipolar game, it depends of my opponents. If I see my enemies build huge economies then I make even larger castle, and then I have more then 200-300 working people, depending of whether the map is low resource or not. My mom always has more 200 by the way. big_smile

I know you use bread, but how do you feed, maintain, and keep busy such a population? I've never had a stable population over about 85 or so.

Regarding the question with the macemen - yes, they are definitely worth it! They are strong and fast units - pretty useful, especially against Opponents who use fire to defend themselves.

They die quickly from fire too. I just don't think its worth sharing the leather. Yes they are fst and strong, but they are also pretty frail. Plus, they are the worst troop to have dig moats.

What exactly do you mean under "starting rush". If it is rush just after no rush period has ended - I have nothing against it; that's what no rush period is for. smile You build your castle and your economy, and when no rush time is ended, then the battles begin. smile
If you taught about playing a game without a rush period, and when the opponent attacks you right from the beginning - I think that can be a challenging thing... You just start to build your economy, and you must be on watch - to monitor how much army does your opponent has. If he has more troops in beginning, then he is getting ready to attack you, and you need to prepare yourself. smile And then... well, use your imagination, you could try to set this guy to fire, or something like that. big_smile Also, crossbowmen are pretty effective against assassins! The bad side of this is that most of those players will simply leave the game after they fail in their attack, but hey - you did make one kid out there pretty angry, which is nice. lol

I have clarified what I meant in my original post. I never have and probably never will play online, so I don't gain access to such cool options…………

Speaking about portable shields - I will be short. I don't like them. big_smile

Now, I want discuss a bit about each troop; I'm gonna be brief here.

1. Archer - Long-ranged, you can use them to help aainst siege equipment
2. Spearmen - Dig quickly; spears created quickly
3. Macemen - Berserkers - Fast and strong, yet frail
4. Crossbowmen - Bolts effective against everything
5. Pikemen - Move moderately fast, high hp, dig moats quickly, low attk.
6. Swordsmen - 2nd strongest melee troop; moves super slow
7. Knights - Weaker than swords; can't climb walls

8. Arab. Bow - Shoots faster than archer
9. Slave - Can burn economy; Very cheap
10. Slingers - Throw short range stones quickly……… rather pathetic in my opinion.....
11. Assassin - Partial invisibility; scale walls; weaker melee capibilities than macemen
12. Horse Archers - Shoot while moving, move fast, can't climb walls
13. Arab. Swords. - Slightly weaker and faster than Europeon counterpart
14. Fire Throwers - Throw fire; about slinger range; low endurance

In my opinion, both fire throwers and slingers need a buff. I'm thinking increasing the troop's range would make them useful. Fire throwers would be useful if you didn't have to be within a very short range.

Last edited by Isaiah (13th Feb 2015 15:43:32)


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#9 11th Feb 2015 21:57:38

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Most players and Lords tend to use a combination of th two. Also, remember that Swordsmen can take about 200 arrows whereas spearmen only take 3. I believe it was 17 bolts to kill Swordsmen (Stronghold Heaven Number cruching thread, which by the way, someone should update the gatehouse/tower damage values; they got updated) and only 1 bolt to kill a spearman. Therefore, I'd still say 3 swordsmen beat 100 spearmen every time unless your opponent is using almost all crossbows. I will say Spearmen have one of the quickest dig times.

And you still need to consider the fact that spearmen are way faster then swordsmen, so those spearmen will rich their opponents way more quickly than the swordsmen. smile

Regarding spearmen and digging - even though they dig faster than any other unit, I still wouldn't use them in attacking my enemies who have moat around the castle, as they would die pretty fast.

They die quickly from fire too. I just don't think its worth sharing the leather. Yes they are fst and strong, but they are also pretty frail. Plus, they are the worst troop to have dig moats.

Yes, but because they are fast they will reach their target more quickly, and they will move through fire more quickly than swordsmen army. That's why they are better for killing Caliph for example.


Speaking about crenellation - my walls are mostly three layered - like Saladin's castle. I pot two layers of standard wall and one layer of crenelated wall, as I believe that's how it was meant to be used. In real life there would be completely no point in building too tick crenelated wall, while in Stronghold the only reason for something like that would be trying to use an exploit. At least that's what I think.

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#10 12th Feb 2015 22:11:21

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Off topic, is there any concrete reason why you haven't tried playing Stronghold / Stronghold Crusader multiplayer? If remember correctly, that's what you said...

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#11 12th Feb 2015 23:04:55

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Two reasons: 1) Don't have the connection neccessary & 2) The game's so old, I'd probably wouldn't find anyone (got it Christmas 2012)

EDIT: Updated initial post

Last edited by Isaiah (13th Feb 2015 15:42:44)


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#12 13th Feb 2015 00:33:55

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

The previous message I made a day ago...

The reason with connection could be valid, but still, I don't know how fast (and reliable perhaps) internet you have.

The other argument in invalid, as there are plenty of Stronghold Crusader players out there - there are a lot of them at GameRanger, but you can play it here with us if you want. We can make a gaming event if you want. If that was your only reason I would only say you're missing a great fun, but I understand what you said about connection. I do hope you connection is good enough for Crusader though.

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#13 13th Feb 2015 00:35:33

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Another problem with similiar significance to connection is data -- we always run out but thats enough that!


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#14 13th Feb 2015 08:43:04

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

I do understand that... Still, I hope you will solve this issue, so we can meet some day on battle field. Side by side, or the nother way. smile

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#15 13th Feb 2015 09:15:54

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

You know you shouldn't double post!

Do me a favor and participate in the discussion rather than just dropping a comment

Isaiah- You are not a moderator. Therefore, it is not up to you to police other users on the site. We actually have a policy against mini-modding. You do not make up the rules, and do not enforce them. If you feel like a user is breaking the rules, then by all means use the "report" functionality.

Double-posting is fine after several hours have past and you have something sensible to add to the thread. I have also mentioned this to EaglePrince myself on at least one other occasion.


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#16 13th Feb 2015 12:03:19

Mathew Steel
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Agreed Lord_Chris. Also Isaiah the way you worded that came across a bit rude.


"Gofyn wyf am galon hapus, calon onest, calon lân."

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#17 13th Feb 2015 20:49:30

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Indeed, and Crusader1307 only showed us his good will by showing up in the thread. That's what we should value most. We should indeed give our best to be maximally polite to each other, so we would keep this place as a pleasant spot to rest, which it is right not to me. smile

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#18 13th Feb 2015 21:00:28

Crusader1307
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Okay, MY turn to chime in! big_smile
Whereas I was a tad "put off" by the comment angry I did not take it to heart. Everybody has an opinion and everybody is entitled to it. I was simply noting that Isaiah's knowledge of the game features was somewhat impressive. I didn't see the need to join his and Eagle Prince's conversation with such detail (as was already being done).
Whatever needs to be done to bring in Membership and loyal followers was a feature I really liked about the defunct Stronghold Knights (not being able to have been a Member long before they vanished). roll
Oh well.....moving on back to my HISTORY realm............

Last edited by Crusader1307 (14th Feb 2015 00:58:38)

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#19 13th Feb 2015 21:08:59

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Sorry all for my rude (and removed) comments.

I'm going try to get this thread going again...

Which do you prefer: Catapults or Trebuchets?
I'd personally say catapults since they hit most of the time and do great damage.

In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?
A few fire ballista and about 40-100 melee units normally; I cannot stand micromanagement sometimes and waiting for a huge army takes forever.


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#20 13th Feb 2015 21:17:54

Lord_Chris
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Which do you prefer: Catapults or Trebuchets?

This is very tough for me - on one hand I prefer trebuchets, purely because they can hit much more accurately, but the only limitation is that they can't move. Catapults are only really good in number, which is better for smaller sieges. When I'm feeling particularly cruel, I tend to slowly destroy my opponent with Trebuchets. big_smile

In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?

I haven't played Crusader in a while now, so am unable to answer the second sad


The fields have eyes, and the woods have ears.
— Geoffrey Chaucer, The Canterbury Tales: The Knight's Tale

Useful Articles
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Locking/Unlocking Stronghold Crusader 2 Maps

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#21 13th Feb 2015 21:27:47

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Those two questions are ones I hope others could jump in. smile

Which do you prefer: Catapults or Trebuchets?
It depends... For example if I am attacking Caliph, or any other opponent that doesn't have ballistae or mangonels on top of his towers, but if the one has mangonels or ballistae, then I would try to test what is my opponents range, so I could put those in just right position where he wouldn't be able to touch my siege engines. But what I like to do is putting trebuchets in one long line before enemies castle, but not too close to the enemy. This way he cannot destroy my siege equipment easily even with mangonels. Still, a downside of this tactic is that it is harder to defend siege equipment positioned like this.
I also have feeling that trebuchets are not less precise then catapults, in fact - they may be even more accurate than those, and each hit from a trebuchet deals more damage - or so it seems to me. Regarding the thing with precision - I think that it does depend of our target, as while a trebuchet hits his target from above, a catapults hits his target from the front; because of this, if you are attacking a segment of wall, catapults may indeed seem more precise as it cannot hit behind the wall.

In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?
This one depends of whether I play Stronghold 1 or Crusader 1 - in Crusader we all have larger armies I think. But it always depends of my economy and of the maximum army size. But when I am able to train more troops, I almost always group my soldiers in groups of 70 or so, and I would be moving them in formations like Romans would do with their legions. This may not be that much visible in multiplayer though as I am constantly moving my troops, and I am supporting them with archers, bowmen, horse archers, and crossbowmen. Also, if I expect my enemy to throw cows on my army, or to place pitch so he could put my army to fire, then I have to split those groups of 70 into smaller groups, so they could evade those stuff more effectively.

ADDITION:

This is very tough for me - on one hand I prefer trebuchets, purely because they can hit much more accurately, but the only limitation is that they can't move. Catapults are only really good in number, which is better for smaller sieges. When I'm feeling particularly cruel, I tend to slowly destroy my opponent with Trebuchets. big_smile

Still, if you have enough gold, you can un-man your trebuchets from the back lines, and to send those engineers to build new ones in the front.
Oh, and about the catapults being good in numbers - when I was a kid, my brother would be telling me how he would be able to destroy "my fancy castle" with mass of catapults, so I cannot describe how happy I was when I saw that my mangonels are able to stop tens of catapults. I believe I withstood attacks of hundred of catapults, and in few sieges my castle lost several of it's towers, but I did manage to defend my self. The only thing I need to have before the siege starts is full stockpile of stone though... smile

Last edited by EaglePrince (13th Feb 2015 21:33:29)

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#22 14th Feb 2015 11:20:22

Mathew Steel
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

I'm sure you didn't mean to sound rude, but from my perspective it seemed a bit rude. Don't worry about it smile

Which do you prefer: Catapults or Trebuchets?

I myself prefer catapults as they're much easier to use and cost a lot less. Although trebuchets have a big range advantage, catapults are very useful when that last layer of wall needs taking down fast!

In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?

I don't tend to use huge armies, simply because I never have enough resources. Playing with allies (for example EaglePrince I tend to send supporting troops, such as engineers, archers, small groups of swordsmen, just to help wipe out remaining enemy units.


"Gofyn wyf am galon hapus, calon onest, calon lân."

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#23 14th Feb 2015 14:59:27

Isaiah
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Mathew Steel said:

I'm sure you didn't mean to sound rude, but from my perspective it seemed a bit rude. Don't worry about it smile

Which do you prefer: Catapults or Trebuchets?

I myself prefer catapults as they're much easier to use and cost a lot less. Although trebuchets have a big range advantage, catapults are very useful when that last layer of wall needs taking down fast!

In Crusader, what's your average siege army size?

I don't tend to use huge armies, simply because I never have enough resources. Playing with allies (for example EaglePrince I tend to send supporting troops, such as engineers, archers, small groups of swordsmen, just to help wipe out remaining enemy units.

Lol, I'm basically the same way on the second question except I have to siege the castle myself.
I'm about to update the initial post, but you are always welcome to continue discussing old topics.


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#24 14th Feb 2015 15:18:22

EaglePrince
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Hmm, I guess we could try to find some time to play all together some time. We could make some unfair map in which we would give computer 40,000 gold and put them on the rich side of the map where they could have all that they may need, and to put us on another side of the map where we could have almost no resources. Something similar to mission 80 of Crusader (Warchest) Trail!

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#25 15th Feb 2015 16:52:35

Lord Vetka
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Re: Stronghold Tactics Discussion

Trebs or Cats, I like the trebs because they take less stone, 2 trebs can do a lot of damage to a castle, my main goal is to open a gate, but also to knock down a few towers to relieve the range units, I usually use a ram for the gate but trebs do the job.

When the gate has been taken down I would move in with about 80-100 swordsmen after my melee units removed a few more archers, and they move in behind the swordsmen to help them, sometimes I might attack with about 100 horse archers first then come in with swordsmen or maybe 50-60 assassins.

I like to change things up just to make things interesting, like going in with only spearmen, or horse archers, that takes a lot of spearmen depending on who your attacking, but with time on your hands anything can be affective!

I did notice someone saying how the Slingers are not any use, I would have to disagree with that, lots of the war scenarios that I make are quite hard and you are getting invaded early on and don't have an economy set up yet, about 20-30 Slingers by the keep supporting a few melee units can save the day!

Of course these comments are about Crusader as I don't play SH1 very often.


Edit: we could have a good game going with Candhar in Extreme, 3 allies against 2 allied enemy units with 4 outposts each, we do not get an outpost, this is a hard challenging map, after some time goes by the AI outposts start to produce a large amount of troops making sieging them and defending a little difficult.

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