#1 12th May 2019 20:22:05

EaglePrince
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Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Hey, guys. A friend of mine from Steam likes playing Stronghold 1. He's pretty good at it, and because very few online players know how to play more efficiently - me included, he has started making videos. Those are videos of his multiplayer games, but he has made some nice multiplayer tutorials as well! This is one of his videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyJcWcT … e=youtu.be

And this one is a tutorial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYLYd6F … e=youtu.be

I know, some of us don't even want to play "in the most efficient way", but to know more is definitely better! Yes, there are many "dirty tricks" in these games that we don't like, but we can use those tricks that are not dirty, that would help us bring a little bit more dynamics in the game. And it's now just about few of us speaking here, it is also about all those people out there who quietly come by, download maps, find some solutions, read about some tactics, etc.

I'm expecting that he will come to say hi in this thread. In the meantime, this is his channel.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw6lU4 … XH5kxA4nSQ

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#2 12th May 2019 21:21:21

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Hello everyone! EaglePrince thank you for this post from all of my heart, really - I don't know how to thank you enough. big_smile

First of all let me introduce myself. I'm Rakso and I'm an quite-old multiplayer player. I think soon will pass by 8 years since I've started playing it pro-competetive. I used to play this game alot back in the days, when there were still good players in around, such as: {F.U} Tw1n, {F.U} Blacky, GHR Sila, {HOD} Trisje, {HOD} Kay`, {F.U} Arcy`, Heisenberg, {F.U} Defs, Gannicus, <[ODK]> DeZiN, <[ODK]> NaNo, Silent_hero, ZgredeQ, Hydro, Ready!, Torcida), but sadly since that time, the game started dying quite much.

How come? Well, multiplayer of Stronghold 1 was always pretty much being overshadowed by Crusader1, moreover the community was quite different than Crusader's - more mature I'd say, so noone really was recording anyone, by so our games, either noone thought back in the years that helping multiplayer of SH1 to get more popular was actually needed, so newcommers weren't being pulled in(taught how to play, trained, befriended with) and with time the good players obviously grown up to adults, and rarely anyone had ever any more time to play, so the game died quite much in a few years. For 2 years competetive online playing was really dead, but recently thanks to a friend of mine, who still keept playing, he used to befriend with some users at Crusader and pulled them on SH1, to try it out. He invited few months ago back to play, saying he has a few users to play.

We started playing, I trained them how to play in 2 months to play exactly like you just can see on my vids(It isn't hard for me, I've been already training players before, but they left the game too, because got bored of lack of competition in it, except for me), now we're around 10, so I decided I'll start recording my multiplayer games to show everyone, what does it look like for me, how much plenty of fun it can be if you know how to play the way we do. I renember newcommers always used to b*tching around, cry and complain about rushing, selling apple being noob, not funny at all.

Well, I can understand such a behavior, there was no possible way to describe how fun playing like we do really could be, everyone used pretty much to think it's really boring to do rush-like gameplay, but well, if more players do that too, it can be really fun then. Stronghold 1 online biggest pros is this game dynamics. Those are just crazy, they could match Starcraft 2 on equal for me(no joke), but at the same time it can be calm and relaxful enjoyable of a game aswell. The fun I had while playing this game through all the years is just indescribable, neither possible to showcase - uncountable moments of enjoyment and all the plenty of interesting and amazing people I've used to meet here will always lay in my heart and my memory. wink

Anyway, other than just show others how fun playing multiplayer in this way can be, I simply want to make it more popular(at best possible way evenly matched to Crusader's), but also actually teach other people how to play good through my vids, explaining every single thing I know (and believe me, my knowledge about the game is really big), to help improve his online-gameplay everyone interested with the matter. Currently I'm not recording, because we haven't got much time to play together - May being the exams month, but that will change soon, and we surely get back to continue playing this hella fun of a game. smile

I dunno what to say further. lol If anyone's want to contact me undependently, here's my Discord:
Rakso#0972
Skype:
rakso.casts69
Gameranger:
nickname's Rakso account ID's rakso_finest(6955818).

Or either comment below. Renember to subscribe to my channel, and like all of my videos, it's really important for both me and Stronghold 1 multiplayer. Cheers! big_smile

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#3 18th May 2019 09:36:40

EaglePrince
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

I would still like to add one thing - when you read Rekso's post, your impression might be "another guy playing like a 'pro'", because most of people here don't like playing Stronghold games like that. For one thing, all of us here like to enjoy Stronghold, and to actually build the castle. This is my opinion: if people play a Stronghold game, and it turns out that playing it without building the castle gives more chances to win, then something is wrong with the game, and it needs to be fixed. Unfortunately, we have no power to fix the game like that, and therefore, we make an agreement not to do some stuff which give an advantage without making any sense.

Portable shields might be my favorite example of that. Troops moving with portable shields gives them more protection than putting them on a tower. That's a nonsense which becomes even more serious in Crusader 1 where you can see dozens of portable shields running alongside with horse archers.

Still, watching videos like this is valuable - we can take from them exactly what we like. Plus, there are certainly some non-active visitors who would like to learn exactly how to play "like a pro". That is why I think having these tutorials at Stronghold Nation would be quite a good thing. Maybe some of these could be added into all other tutorials. smile

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#4 25th May 2019 01:18:07

odisseus
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

These videos display good knowledge of strategy and tactics, amazing glitches and an unbelievable click rate. However, the in-game chat is absolutely the worst possible way to add subtitles.

It is an agony to watch the narrator typing the words one by one, then realizing he's made a typo and pressing backspace until it's erased, not to mention the tiny size and low contrast of the letters.

Please, please, start using a proper video editor like OpenShot.

Last edited by odisseus (25th May 2019 01:18:45)


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#5 26th May 2019 10:53:31

EaglePrince
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Or, the other good way would be to use a microphone. Though I understand some might be "microphone-shy", me included. smile But speaking out loud is, I think, still the best for videos like this.

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#6 2nd Jun 2019 01:51:47

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

@EaglePrince
Nothing wrong with the game. Defence is better than attack. It's just not used by me, my friends and other pro, because playing like that is absolutely boring, totally g** and doesn't require any skill at gameplay at all(army commanding, timing, speed, judgement). You'd need to play online in order to understand it whole at best.

Stronghold clearly isn't a game of skill and technique when it comes to multiplayer, but a fight for ideas and flair, so Alpha rules and Liga rules were set-agreed between the pro community in order to change the game to a way, where skill clearly is something worth to practice over and have, than just being intro-smart and use broken imbalanced stuff.

At some point in the game stuff which could be used are just insanely broken and you simply can't do nothing about it, not to mention about winning such a game.

Enemy just build up the correct things: killig pits, pitch, braziers, plenty of towers with crossbowmen & shields & mangonels and walls, knights for destroying siege equipment, 30 catapults used against enemy siege equipment "spread" deployment, trebuchets to throw disease and you're over.

You'd continue on making catapults? Well, you can. But at SH1 catapults and trebuchets got only 20 shoots, after so you need to load them up: ONE BY ONE(because the game isn't as well designed as Crusader, because it's older than it). Meaning that in the end you only ever get just one chance to tear up someone's enormous base with the up-mentioned combination base by leaving a hole inside it, but that won't help anyway if the enemy is prepared to react(and he'll always be, if he's not an attacker), to fire you up, amass with disease or whatever.

Renember that there is an army limit too, and every catapult has 2 peasants, trebuchets got 3. So you end up having only like ~300 troops in a 1vs1 environment vs enemy army(500 troops army limit), which is mostly made out of crossbowmen, because 1 mangonel already acts as well as 10 catapults. If you have got 20 mangonel towers you clearly have same strenght as the attacker being on defence with 10 times less troops required. Not to mention height advantage and capability of predicting enemy movements rolling him all up with either fire, disease, killing pits and ranged manpower.

The game at this point just becomes pointless. If both players do the same thing noone will ever win, because you obviously can do a defence like that too, and then none of you two will either ever in his lifetime be capable of crushing it, if you both are smart enough at using this broken combination of elements.

You'll obviously faster learn to play like I do, and respect the skillful games instead of playing in this gayest way possible, but overpowered effective.

Yet still, I used to meet people that combine same economical skills as I have with this c**p... also using armies of tunnelers(destroying the sense of weapon trade: off in Stronghold 1 multiplayer - they're stronger than spearmen), fire oil enginers to burn someone's base and worst of everything mangonels spam for defence with enough support of other "broken-sies".



@odisseus
Thanks. I'll do. I plan to add voice commentary and remake the video soon enough. Please understand that I wasn't ready to do such thing and had nothing to do it, I just felt like "I'll do it here and now", so I did it, there wasn't any thought behind making this 1h20min tutorial video. smile

I didn't even prepared for it. It's all just being freestyled on top of it without either any preparation. Video was too long for my taste to edit it, so I left it just like that and uploaded. You can x2 speed it on youtube if you feel like. Should help.

Nevertheless, not trying to be rude now, If you're seeking for knowledge and experience you catch it from anywhere and ignore the cons of the things, that can help you in achiving it. This way myself I learned alot of things. Others can make good and well designed videos, but actually trashtalk on the matter like no else, meanwhile others, like I, can make bad designed videos, but speak clearly about stuff yourself you wouldn't ever think of in years, because it took years for me myself to understand on my own the stuff I'm speaking over about and explaining in this tutorial. I never really had a teacher in this game standing on top of me. I learned pretty much nearly everything on my own. Others mostly just throwed on me bare tips, which most of were pointless anyways.

Ps: If you're curious how I unbelievably click so fast, a friend from Stronghold showed me up this strategy quite a bit of years ago: (youtu.be) /aQuth3XJ5wk?t=137 <--- Him clicking with camera
Had enough time to practice it up, not to mention that I'm not lefty but righty, so it came more in handy allowing me also to use my keyboard while doing so. big_smile Some pro I meet used to call it finger trick, but it's rather just a variation of one of the two most popular fast-click techniques: Butterfly clicking, other one being Jitter clicking(but I don't suggest it to use, as looks highly unhealthy for one's veins).

Last edited by Rakso (2nd Jun 2019 01:55:04)

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#7 2nd Jun 2019 01:56:57

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Other ps:
Any plus reputations or allowing me to posts links over here for my hard work? smile Cheers!
Would love to "upgrade" my account over here quite fast for more possibilities wink

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#8 2nd Jun 2019 15:07:58

Mathew Steel
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Firstly, welcome to the community, Rakso!

As for your most recent response, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I understand spreading awareness about your content can be a difficult task with YouTube, but like most sites, we don't allow for advertisements, especially when there is monetary value involved, which is possible with YouTube. This thread is excused because EaglePrince shared a link to the content, which is clearly relevant to Stronghold and thus SHN. The thread is available for everyone to see, and so if you gain anymore subscribers through the thread, then that's absolutely fine by us. However, repeat threads or update-style threads relating to your channel or uploads in particular will be removed as they are considered mass-advertising/spam and is subsequently against site rules.

Hopefully this cleared things up, and if I've misunderstood what you're asking, feel free to elaborate in a reply, or to contact me privately in a PM.

Best regards,
Tom.


"Gofyn wyf am galon hapus, calon onest, calon lân."

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#9 2nd Jun 2019 17:15:39

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

@Mathew Steel I mean: "Was this post helpful? (+). I noticed it gives reputation points over here. That's what I'm asking for. wink I'm not earning yet from my youtube videos. It's due to the channel being small yet and also due to the fact, that I'm using copyrighted music over my videos. The content of my channel is about to be mainly about Stronghold 1, but everything is going to be Stronghold in general, such as other Stronghold games from the serie for example. I don't intend to spam links, but to use them as a clear reference to an external source(In this case my channel videos with precise minute excerpt given) to point out the matter clearly. Only in this post, only as a reply to others questions about anything regards Stronghold multiplayer. Cheers!

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#10 2nd Jun 2019 23:27:59

EaglePrince
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

Rakso, been there, done that. smile I used to play Stronghold Crusader of those "pros", but I don't like their ways. They are too competitive, and I my opinion it ruins the fun. I got tired of those guys making screenshot of every game, trying to prove something to the "community". What is more, settings rules which favor not building almost any defensive structures is wrong. Those guys should return to what the game was supposed to be. Sure, those scenarios you're describing are possible even in Crusader. Both players can just "turtle", build up a lot of defensive structures, and then it may seam pointless to try to end the game.

However, if you let your enemy build up like that, isn't that your fault as well? Why did you let him? Try to push him, while he didn't make all that. Or - why play 1v1, why not 2v2. In this case, if one side "turtles", then each player from that team would actually be an easy target for the other team which controls the map.

There are other ways you could play the game in the more natural way - you may set some other rules.

Or, what is the BEST, absolutely the BEST, is to play the game with friends. Not with some bragging dudes over there. It is far more fun - there will be no leavers, and you will all play for fun, no matter how good or bad somebody plays. You will find a way to make the fight even.

And when you play with friends, one awesome thing comes in in Stronghold 1! You can make an alliance, or you can force somebody to make the alliance, and he can even betray you.

The fact that somebody made those Alpha rules doesn't mean to me that those rules are the best, but sure - it suited some people for some reasons. For example, this way the game lasts shorter time. But this is actually only important if you play with random people, not when playing with friends.

I think that we look at it just differently. You want to take down your opponent, while some other people which may be labeled as "noobs" like to spend the quality time in the game. Look at Stronghold 2 for example. For fighting, it's not much, but to "chill and fight", damn, it's perfect. And if only we were able to play the multiplayer against AI lords.

It's similar in Stronghold 1 and Crusader 1. You can build your castles, and fight, and agree not to "turtle" too much. Then you would have many skirmishes outside your castles, and one players defeat on an open field, or in front of an enemy castle, could have massive impact on the game - and even mean your eventual defeat. Because in Stronghold 1, which is great, one cannot replace their troops as easily as in Crusader 1. But you need some different rules for that, such as - not throwing cows on troops in open field.

Maybe what I said now is the reason why people now haven't adopted this "pro" way of playing in Stronghold 1. It's too far away from the originally intended way of playing, the natural way of playing.

However, all this is my opinion, and I may not be right. big_smile And no matter what we thought about this matter, people love knowing more tricks, and knowing how to play in a more efficient way. No matter whether they play "the way it was meant to be played", or by Alpha or Liga rules, this is useful to them.

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#11 3rd Jun 2019 00:44:42

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

@EaglePrince Crusader wasn't and never ever will be Stronghold 1. That's why SH1 is a whole other world, and SHC isn't for me as good as the vanilla, both about the gameplay and community matters.

I know there were alot of toxic players in the game, but I never got it to walk over the top of my head, just ignored it and played, that's all you ever wanted to do after all, right? Just same as me, to try out the game online, not to stick up with anyone or uncontrollably fall into the abyss of community dark side, so why you did fell into and started to react to it?

Tell you what? Stronghold 1 was always by thousands times more mature than SHC. Back the days when I started playing I meet maybe only a few out of thousands of people that I used to play with that were actually the very unfriendly, bragging and acting high ones. Know why only a few? Me neither. I think that the key difference between both of the communities in these two multiplayer games were both the multiplayer videos being shared and ways of teaching players. Stronghold 1 for a very long time, till now(probably due to my videos) remained a mysterious game that hardly anyone ever knew how to play it competetively in the "real pro ways", due to that reason the game nearly died off, but was that a bad move by the hand of SH1 pro players to ignore 99% of players? I'd say yes.

Why? Well, once I heard a quote, which you can learn best through competetive games just as Stronghold to be true, if you're ever teaching anyone or showing him anything of about how to play, renember that Enemies stay enemies, but friends change - I guess that was the story for most of the good guys when it comes to speak about SHC. Loyalty always becomes the most important and impressive trait in someone, and one eventually learn how much of a waste of time it ever was to train anyone. Better just to stick with your elite loyals and enjoy the game with friends, just as you said, and just as I do, but is it wrong by me to make it bigger? smile
 
Thanks to the choosing of the old pro players, SH1 is a perfect game, where just me and my friends, and other nice people can enjoy playing together without any trash like that one you're describing that used to happen back and nowaydays in SHC.

At Crusader everyone can learn to play easly quickly and act high, guess why? Here we go again - videos of multiplayer gameplay records(from which it's really easy to catch how to play), and obviously the community itself that just trains randomly everyone whoever asks for it without any pre-thought about wisety of doing so.

Later on the game just ends up being same as SHC, with plenty of players crying, complaining around, jerking, toxic behaving and bragging(people unworthy of playing it) - a player with a passion for this game and mature respect to others is such a miracle in these days at SHC, but a commonwealth on SH1. wink

You won't meet that stuff on SH1, I can assure you. Me and my friends will sure help you and befriend with you or anyone on the game if one feels wanting it. I used to start distinguishing people from eachother, so I can without problem rate one to be worthy of learning how to play(and further use this knowledge in a good way), or not. If you won't be nice, the community will backfire on you, because well, it's finally just me and around 10-15 of my really good friends that play it now, and I've used to train them how to play from 0 to 100, and they never ever backfired upon me, and understand me completly. Hehe My elite loyals. big_smile

Please don't feel watching my videos same like as watching SHC nffs/nof's... It's not the point of these videos and I hate that feeling to hear talking like that about my youtube content - gives me the creeps. Do not throw everyone into the same sack. SH1 community is different, I assure you, and the idea behind my videos is totally different than the SHC ones, I don't pretend to show my superiority over anyone, just the way I enjoy playing this beautiful game.

Now, about the game. SHC has more possibilities and is better balanced, you can eventually outcome everything due to the game possibilites. SH1 is limited due to having less stuff and worse-designed mechanics, which eventually guide the game into something broken that you can't compare to SHC.

I don't want to "take down my opponent" bruh. I'm being myself. I play for fun, and that's the way I f*****g LOVE to play this game and gives me so much fun. The one I had while playing this game through all the years is just indescribable, neither possible to showcase - uncountable moments of enjoyment and all the plenty of interesting and amazing people I've used to meet there will always lay in my heart and my memory. lol No matter what, if I'll stop playing this game, or have a break from it, there's always going to be something that will keep on pulling me back to it. I think I hadn't yet lived for past years a single whole month without playing this game for not atleast once. I've never stopped care for this game prosperity - always been willing of teaching and training players on how to play it online properly and efficiently in order to enjoy the game even way further more atleast in the littliest inch of how I ever did.

I believe you heard about the fountain of youth. Stronghold sure isn't the one, but definately is being for me a personal fountain of endless joy! smile

Cheers,
Rakso.

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#12 3rd Jun 2019 02:50:30

Mathew Steel
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

If you're using the video links to provide necessary extra content, then by all means. If it's just posting a new video to the site every time you upload, that's when it becomes problematic. The reason for this isn't to try and make things difficult for people, but if we let one person post video links for their channel, then we have to let everyone do the same, which will lead to lower quality posts (aka, less text, and a link) and then less discussion, as most discussions will then be moved over to the video comments on YouTube. I hope you understand.


"Gofyn wyf am galon hapus, calon onest, calon lân."

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#13 3rd Jun 2019 19:46:14

EaglePrince
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

First of all, I meant noting bad. smile We simply prefer different styles of playing. I prefer to actually build a castle, and you prefer it another way. And both are fine, and both types of players can appreciate your content. That's what I did in the first place! I learned a lot by playing on my own. Then I met some other players, some of those "pros", and then I learned their ways. After that I made my own style - to build a castle, AND to build the economy more efficiently. And why not - use some of the fighting tactics I've learned from "pros". Later I only played with friends from this forum, and I changed it a little bit more - I refrained from using few more of those tricks. Such as - not spam mills and water pots for higher population.

Also, there is no pro player in Stronghold 1 or Crusader 1. Pro is somebody who gets paid for it. No matter how good you're at playing the game, you're not a pro unless that's how you earn for living. wink

Stronghold 1 and Crusader 1 are simply two different games. Crusader is more dynamic and has more troops, while Stronghold 1 has slower economy. Both are very fun, neither is better. It is a matter of preference.

I didn't fall into an abyss, I just noted what I don't want to spend my time on.

Teaching other player to play is never bad. Maybe not teaching them is actually arrogant. They don't teach anybody, and when they defeat the new guy easily, they just quit telling how he's a noob. That's very immature. I actually prefer my friends from Crusader 1 for that matter, and the best ones are those who don't expect any loyalty. I mean, what loyalty, are they some kind of kings, or something? Hell, no. Be their friend, and accept that all of them have their own (real) lives. And accept the fact that they are not signing a contact with the Devil, they can do whatever they want, even online. There is no possible way one could become your enemy online. big_smile

And it is not easy to learn to play Crusader 1, it is only easier to learn to play it in certain rules, such as "no fire, no flying stone". And it was easier to learn even before all that was on YouTube, because there were players willing to show you.

I don't judge you, nor your friends. I am sorry if you got that impression. smile I am only speaking about those games, and how I prefer to play these games. And I don't say that those who don't think like me are worse in any way, we just like different things. wink And what bonds us, we like the same game. smile

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#14 3rd Jun 2019 21:00:27

Rakso
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

@EaglePrince In my opinion Stronghold 1 doesn't lack dynamics. Maybe on your gameplay style, because on the one I'm loving to play with the game is totally dynamic. SH1 is definately the Top Stronghold game of the whole franchise when it comes to dynamics to be honest. Everything happens faster than in other Sh's.

I meant to say that knowledge is often being shared to people that shouldn't know it, because they don't deserve for that with their behavior, and don't further do anything good with it as things should be supposed to. That might be one of reasons of SHC multiplayer pro scenery to be more popular, but also of having more players that ain't really friendly and just become obsessed with score.

Pro simply means an experienced personality in a certain cathegory, doesn't mean that you should earn for living by doing something. Is pro everyone in this case who's earning for living for doing anything? Nope.

It's ok. I've just wanted to clarify some things about what you have said to the public about me and stuff that I'm making. I'll repeat that all players on those videos were trained by me from scratch and that's what they have achived only in few months total. That's what you can do if you're passionate and thristy for knowledge and experience.

Cheers,
Rakso.

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#15 3rd Jun 2019 23:51:38

EaglePrince
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Re: Multiplayer tutorials for Stronghold 1

But Crusader is more dynamic because resourced and everything else is being produced faster, including massive armies. That's what I meant. smile And I completely agree with you, even in Crusader there are many players who play in higher speed because they think Crusader is not dynamic enough. But in reality, it's then who don't know how to use the time. I imagine you have the same feeling about Stronghold 1.

And more dynamic isn't better. It depends. As I see it, Stronghold 1 is less dynamic, and therefore players must play more carefully - your mistakes here are far more expensive.

And because of that, Stronghold 1 players need to be more patient, and I think that's why Stronghold 1 has more mature players.

Once again, just like I told you at Steam, I like what you do. I hope you will also try some stuff suggested here by others, such as talking to the microphone instead of typing. smile

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